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rcjohnso
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« on: December 23, 2005, 06:32:15 AM » |
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Finally sat down and watched Dogville. Good performances, well shot, I loved the theatrical style.
But holy crap, what a laughable glass turd of a movie.
Glass because you can see right through it. Turd because it's a turd.
I understand that it feels much better to assign all the evils of mankind onto foreigners and point at them in self righteous disdain than to look closer to home for the source of humanity's troubles, I understand that instinct as a very human one which we've all engaged in from time to time. I also recognize it as a very weak minded, bad thing to do. Von Trier paints a portrait of America that is so hatefully condescending and one dimensional that in the end (around the time he's concluding that the US is so bad the only just reaction to the universal ingrown insideous hipocracy of its people is mass genocide) it has descended beyond hamfisted allegory, and into the realm of hilarity.
A factoid that's often whipped out by Von Trier detractors is that although he's spent a good part of his recent career saying that America has poopy pants, he's never actually set foot in this country. Before I watched Dogville this struck me as somewhat immaterial - I've written about places I haven't visited. But now I actually see how central this fact is, and how perfectly it illustrates what's wrong with the film. This film is not about America or Americans at all, in fact as you watch it it slowly becomes apparent that there is not one genuine human character in the entire thing. They're all finger puppets, two dimensional sketches akin to the evil Japs on propaganda posters from World War II, drawn with calculated hate to evoke an emotional reponse. And it all comes back to the real reason I'm so angered by the film: it plays exactly the same card as hate speech or propaganda, creating a simplified and detestable portrait of a distant group of foreigners and projecting onto them the worser elements of the filmmaker's own nature.
Wow, meant to just expand on the 'glass turd' thing and ended up ranting a bit. But if ever a movie deserved a rant...
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Zooey
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« Reply #1 on: December 23, 2005, 08:17:57 AM » |
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Wow, Rian, I thought that was a really good, concise, sharp review. You just made me completely rethink all of Dogville, and take a hard look on how I digest art in general. I don't think I really understood that it was about America when I saw it, or really understood exactly what it was about, but I read some stuff afterwards that said it was, although I was out of my league as far as the references were concerned, so I still sort of didn't understand. I thought it was more about human nature, and I liked it on that -- that is, until I read and began to think through what you wrote about not a single human being portrayed, but two-dimentional sketches instead. And the reason I'm writing this is because you have again made me really rethink not just a movie, but how I view and choose not to view life. Damn you! After I saw Dogville, I liked it but was confused, and instead of really thinking through it, I just sort of left it at that. My analysis ended (or gave up) after "Good performances, well shot, I loved the theatrical style." But it's sort of inspiring for me to read what you wrote, because it reminds me that it's really important for me to think through things more -- especially films like Dogville that trigger me emotionally in ways that I haven't intellectually sorted through, which I think is really important, and even my responsibility as a filmgoer. Or maybe my responsibility as a human being. And it's inspiring for me because I've sort of left some of my critical thinking by the wayside lately, and I'm inclined to shrug things off as too big, or too hard, or too meaningless sometimes without even really having done any leg-work or actual digging. And so, more importantly than Dogville's themes, what you wrote in some way gets back to that thing you had quoted on your website awhile ago, about people becoming cynical before they've even really lived life, which is also "weak-minded." So thank you for your wisdom and consideration, which are always compelling, and which still always manage to be hillarious.
And I quote: "[Von Trier's] spent a good part of his recent career saying that America has poopy pants..."
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JJHards
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« Reply #2 on: December 23, 2005, 08:07:29 PM » |
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Yo, hmmm...I appear to be in the same boat as Zach, in terms of how I first saw the film and thought it was good etc but maybe i havnt looked at it hard enough. Sometimes people need a rant. After considering it for all of 10 seconds (i'll think more later when im not distracted by ebay)...I still really like the film...BUT...I've had many reservations about lars von triers for quite some time now. But in the same way that he's never been to America...I've never met him, so maybe I'm just wrong? He often tends towards this sometimes horrible dislike of america, and often of people in general...I'm not sure if he has any reasons for either...but I wonder if a person in such a highly regarded position in the cinematic world should have more responsibility when it comes to and I quote..."(a) hate speech or propaganda, creating a simplified and detestable portrait of a distant group of foreigners and projecting onto them the worser elements of the filmmaker's own nature" (Sorry if Ive misused that quote)...
I like his films at face value. I generally like his films a bit deeper. I'm scared to look further for fear of disliking some of my favourite films from the last couple of years.
Dear Wendy, written by Von Triers is brilliant...but it has a similar edge to Dogville...that its dislike for a certain aspect of what the rest of the world thinks is America is played upon and used [slightly] like propaganda. hmmm....
This may take some thought.
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rah
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« Reply #3 on: December 23, 2005, 09:46:56 PM » |
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rian...you are brilliant and funny and have a great personality. you know what i'm talking about  |
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JJHards
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« Reply #4 on: December 23, 2005, 10:52:45 PM » |
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well as long as someone does!
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thegimp
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« Reply #5 on: December 24, 2005, 12:52:46 AM » |
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jjhards=dogville fan?
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« Last Edit: December 24, 2005, 11:07:26 AM by thegimp »
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JJHards
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« Reply #6 on: December 24, 2005, 06:44:02 PM » |
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What, Phil? What?
Am I a dogville fan? quite possibly...It was one my favourite films of the last couple of years. emphasis on the was...but maybe still...like i said...
This may take some thought.
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theadslguy
Newbie
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Posts: 16
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« Reply #7 on: December 30, 2005, 01:51:38 AM » |
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I saw Dogville a couple of years ago at the Telluride By The Sea Film Festival in Portsmouth, NH. I like Nicole Kidman, that was partly the only reason why I went, other reason was I had heard really good things about Lars Von Trier. I thought the use of the camera's was good, it was neat to see Von Trier use basically affordable digital camcorders to film the whole thing, the set idea as being like a play was cool. The whole movie was so boring to me though, I'm generally not a very prude-ish person but I felt somewhat uncomfortable during the film. I actually got motion sick a couple of times one some of the camera movements. The plot was just very meh, is all I can explain it as. The whole chapter ideas that told you everything that was going to happen in the upcoming scenes was annoying. These are just some basic overviews of what I can remember of what I didn't like about it.
Overall I just didn't like the film and I am not probably going to see Manderlay (the sequel) I do like Bryce Dallas Howard, but I don't think I can sit through more of the same.
Just seemed like one of the more famous/talked about directors of the mid-90's in the Euro-indie movement could've done better.
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-Nick G.
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Bam
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« Reply #8 on: December 30, 2005, 04:35:45 PM » |
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See, but the thing is, his NAME sounds like he's a good director. Or a vampire.
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nobody messes with adam we...
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skepticaloptimist
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« Reply #9 on: January 13, 2006, 12:24:27 AM » |
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Has anyone seen the trailer for Manderlay yet? http://www.apple.com/trailers/independent/manderlay/Maybe I'm just missing some important aspect of metaphor here, but doesn't it look like Lars Von Trier is attempting to make the statement that black people didn't really want to be free? And if that is the case, does that make you want to see the movie more or less? I can see the TV commercials now: "Following in the proud footsteps of Birth of a Nation and Gone With the Wind... Manderlay! Where the hunters are the hunted." |
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skepticaloptimist
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« Reply #10 on: January 17, 2006, 02:06:01 AM » |
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Apparently the trailer was taken down shortly after I posted this. You can find a completely different trailer on the official site and apple might have a new one up by the time you read this...
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